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Post by Maxf1ex on Mar 24, 2009 7:09:02 GMT -8
I don't have a picture of Jesus at my house. I'm racking my brain and I'm pretty sure there isn't one at our church either. Check your Bible, is it all text, or is there drawings in it, and if so, of who or what.
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richard
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Post by richard on Mar 24, 2009 7:11:54 GMT -8
Again...what does it matter? Besides, I don't pray to an image. That's what is known as idolatry. And it doesn't matter what color the image is, it's still idolatry. So why have the picture? If you'll explain where you're going with this, instead of going around in circles, I'll be glad to give you some kind of reasonable answer.
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richard
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Post by richard on Mar 24, 2009 7:12:37 GMT -8
I don't have a picture of Jesus at my house. I'm racking my brain and I'm pretty sure there isn't one at our church either.
Check your Bible, is it all text, or is there drawings in it, and if so, of who or what.Well, most of the pictures in mine haven't been colored in yet...
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Post by Maxf1ex on Mar 24, 2009 7:21:14 GMT -8
The lack of faith others have, so you think I must be heading somewhere with it? How sad that your faith will not allowed you to give an honest answer with out first looking to see if there is a trap.
No matter, do you know what part of the world Jesus was born in? Do you know what that part of the world is called today?
If not, where do you think he was born at?
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richard
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Post by richard on Mar 24, 2009 7:28:22 GMT -8
The lack of faith others have, so you think I must be heading somewhere with it? How sad that your faith will not allowed you to give an honest answer with out first looking to see if there is a trap. What? You go from complaining about having religion "forced" on you to being offended by church decor to asking what color Jesus is. How can anyone follow your reasoning? I know where He was born. What I want to know is what does it matter to you?
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Post by Maxf1ex on Mar 24, 2009 7:41:48 GMT -8
The lack of faith others have, so you think I must be heading somewhere with it? How sad that your faith will not allowed you to give an honest answer with out first looking to see if there is a trap. What? You go from complaining about having religion "forced" on you to being offended by church decor to asking what color Jesus is. How can anyone follow your reasoning? I just go where the questions lead me. No matter, do you know what part of the world Jesus was born in? Do you know what that part of the world is called today?
If not, where do you think he was born at? I know where He was born. What I want to know is what does it matter to you? It matters not to me at all, for I know what I believe and why I believe it. You are the one who has questions.
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richard
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Post by richard on Mar 24, 2009 7:58:20 GMT -8
What? You go from complaining about having religion "forced" on you to being offended by church decor to asking what color Jesus is. How can anyone follow your reasoning? I just go where the questions lead me. I know where He was born. What I want to know is what does it matter to you? It matters not to me at all, for I know what I believe and why I believe it. You are the one who has questions. Forget it. I'm not playing this game.
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Post by googoodan on Mar 24, 2009 20:16:30 GMT -8
To answer some of the questions:
Churches carry these images because many churches have rituals that can be described as "pagan worship of Jesus". The Catholic church is a prime example. Just pay a visit to the Vatican Museum and you will see that there is a whole lot of paganism involved with organized Christianity. That is one reason I say I am spiritual, not religious. Being religious, to me, requires you to participate in pagan rituals such as Christmas in December, April Fool's Day, the Easter Bunny, etc.
Jesus was born in Bethlehem, Israel. Whether that is the same Bethlehem, Israel that exists today is beyond me.
Jesus was not physically described in the Bible. Since David was described as having blond hair and Jesus was assisted by a man described as dark (African, I presume) I can only assume that everyone else including Jesus looked the same, like an olive skinned Middle Easterner.
Any image of Jesus is an idol. When I pray I do not have an image in my head.
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Post by Maxf1ex on Mar 25, 2009 1:52:58 GMT -8
To me creating an image just seems wrong. People can do what they want too. But when I have my choices, no image in any way should be done because as you agree. We know not how he truly looked. And even if we did, why created an image unless it is for giving facts about History.
All I was after was the part of the world he was born in. Which does bring to mind why, when I do see a picture of him, is it almost a spitting image of a white guy. Only one image while I was growing up had an olive tint to it.
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Post by msguide on Mar 25, 2009 5:09:21 GMT -8
To me creating an image just seems wrong. People can do what they want too. Just have a couple of minutes here. Artists conceptualize a lot of things, and I don't see why it would be wrong to conceptualize Bible events and people. One of the things I learned at an exhibit of Christian icons is that they were used for instructional purposes. A lot of places didn't have full time ministers, so the ministers had to travel from village to village. They made little icons as a way to illustrate what they talked about. I have no problem with that. It's a good teaching tool. If I teach a child "A is for Apple" and I have pictures of an A and an apple, that's not asking the child to worship the apple. It's teaching the child the concept of what an apple is. That's kind of what icons were for. 12th Century action figures, if you will. So maybe that's not such a problem for you, from what you've said. Some people do practice religions where they worship idols. Animism will create an idol of just about anything. A lot of eastern religions have shrines in their homes where they worship gods and bring them gifts. Does that make a difference for you, Max?
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Post by msguide on Mar 25, 2009 5:24:45 GMT -8
I just remembered, I don't have to be at work until 11:30. That's my dork move for the day. Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea. That's in Israel. It's still Bethlehem. I'm not sure why this would be a question. I think you mean because of the artwork you see. Most of the classic artwork that survives these days was mostly done by Europeans. If they have never been to Israel, how would they know what Israelis look like? I think conceptualization and actual representation are two different things. Give the artists a little bit of grace. If a man was inspired to paint something he's never seen, I can accept his work without getting too bent out of shape about whether he got the details right. A thousand years ago my ancestors were red-headed barbarians, but we don't look anything like that now. I wouldn't go so far as to say modern day people of Hebrew descent look exactly like what they did in 1200 BC or even AD 4. The DNA is probably not exactly the same as it was in the time of Abraham.
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Post by Maxf1ex on Mar 25, 2009 7:22:02 GMT -8
And yet, to me, it is sacrilege to me to created an image of someone you should show respect to or for.
Which is why I dislike the name calling used at times for people you could care less about.
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Post by msguide on Mar 25, 2009 7:48:17 GMT -8
Which is why I dislike the name calling used at times for people you could care less about. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I have to leave in about 15 minutes, so I'm out for now, but I'll check back later.
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richard
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Post by richard on Mar 25, 2009 7:54:54 GMT -8
And yet, to me, it is sacrilege to me to created an image of someone you should show respect to or for.
Which is why I dislike the name calling used at times for people you could care less about. Do you have pictures of your parents? Your wife? Your kids?
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Post by Maxf1ex on Mar 25, 2009 9:46:39 GMT -8
Which is why I dislike the name calling used at times for people you could care less about. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I have to leave in about 15 minutes, so I'm out for now, but I'll check back later. While I believe you need to earn respect, I also believe you do not disrespect someone unless you know them or there actions. So the little name calling I see from time to time. Like mispronouncing names bothers me a tiny bit.
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